Low End

[gaz7224]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering about below 40hz.  A bass guitar goes down to about 41hz, but most cds seem to have stuff lower than that.  Do they somehow add subsonic frequencies to the bass track?  Or is it the kick that fills up the lower end?  Or what?

I seem to like it when the bass fills up the low end, nice and fat, and then the kick goes in more the 80-120hz range plus a nice 'click' around 3-4kz.  But I don't know if this is 'right'.  Some songs seem to have kick below 40hz too.

I suppose it depends on the song.  Sometimes it's nice to have a really low punchy kick, and let the bass fill more the 125-400hz range.

Any thought would be welcome.

Gaz

[stainless]

although human hearing is down to 20Hz, I honestly wonder how well the majority listening devices (whether i-Pod or typical car stereo) accurately reproduces the LF.  Bass response with earbuds (as I understand it) is exaggerated due to proximity, and when I think about songs with excessive LF (rap as an example) I tend to feel the subs and perhaps this is what we perceive to a greater extent

When you consider that it's common to roll off LF (at whatever shelf your tastes like) much of the very low end is cut

many subs have x-over point at ~ 80 Hz and low end cut-off is  a combination of speaker response/speaker cabinet response, and the listening environment (room,car, outdoors), as a great many listeners do not have subs, the reproduction is now limited by the lower freq response of the woofer (or largest driver)... and like most ranges, accuracy tends to drift as you approach the outer limits

coupled with how many bass players play the absolute lowest freqs and how few people have subs, you'd need to to prioritize 'who" your mixes are targeting.

I tend to EQ scuplt out spaces the kick and bass, so that each have a share of the LF, but don't compete... and I pan a bit differently, whereas the 'norm" for many seems to be to pan both down the middle.  An exciter set to the low freq can also help to make them "stand out" a bit more, and there are some "sub" plug-in around ( may simply be a LF exciter)

all a matter of taste

Do you have sub  with monitors?

[gaz7224]

Do you have sub  with monitors?

I used to, but since I've upgraded and moved house, I haven't bothered.  I just use a pair of Mackie MR8's.  They're rated as 40hz - 20khz +/- 3db, and they are pretty good in the LF range.   Obviously, they do roll off, but they can produce C1 to C2 very well (on a synth bass) with very little variation.

I might start using my sub again, but i prefer not to as they never quite sound right.  I prefer having main monitors with decent LF extension.  Tend to go for for 8" main speakers cuz I prefer how they sound, and obviously they can get pretty low.  Only thing I don't like about the MR8's is that they've got the reflex port on the back; would be better on the front. 

My brother listens to rap, and when I hear the bass I always think it's a lot of bass, and start questioning if it's my ears that are wrong.  I listen to all sorts, but I like country/country pop, and I think those types of music are well balanced in the LF range. 

I guess how you EQ the bass guitar and kick, depends on which notes are played.  Would you take this into consideration while tracking?  For example, if the bass line contained a lot of low notes, would you change the size/pitch of the kick to try and avoid clashing?  Or perhaps alter the bass line so its notes were higher and fitted with the kick better?  Or is this generally done in the mixing stage using EQ?

Do you use a sub?

[stainless]

I use the JBL LSR 6" with the same series 12" sub- x-over set at 65Hz. I used to have problems with 'boominess" in mixes translating to other systems.  With the sub, if the LF is really noticeable... I have too much in the mix.  My control room has a lot of acoustic treatment, but it's certainly not perfect and I know I have a resonance/standing issue at 90Hz so I purposely NEVER boost at or below. I usually start my LF roll-off at ~100- 120 unless the bassline plays a lot of open notes on the bottom E (and so far, no one I've worked with plays a 5 string with a Bon the bottom)

I usually take the kick track and send to one side of a stereo track and the bass to the other and put an analyzer on it so I can SEE where they compete.

Having said that- Bass is not EQ'sd on the front end-  Kick is, but mainly mid and HF cuts to take the snare out (on the way in)

Usually about all I do with bass is add compression, which I have done both pre and post

[gaz7224]

I usually start my LF roll-off at ~100- 120 unless the bassline plays a lot of open notes on the bottom E

This surprises me.  I presumed that on a bass guitar track, you wouldn't roll the low frequencies off at 100hz, because it's meant to be 'bassie'.  But I think I understand why - it's so you get a good tone, rather than just rumble that you feel.  Is that right?  And then after that, you deal with any competing frequencies between kick and bass.

How steep is the roll-off?

Thanks

[stainless]

exactly- I don't want the LF noise floor (aka "rumble)

Iset the low shelf freq point at 20 Hz, -16dB, Q=24 the puts the beginning of the roll off at just about 100Hz  I still get plenty of 60 -+ Hz through