Live Room I/O

[gaz7224]

Hi All,

How much I/O does a live room need?

At the moment, I've got a Motu 2408 MKiii and it has 6 individual outs (+ 2 for monitors with volume control) and 8 ins (TRS).  I feel it's a bit limited so I'm either gonna get a MOTU HD 192 or a MOTU 24 I/O, but I can't decide which.  The 24 I/O has 24 TRS ins and 24 TRS outs, and the HD 192 has 12 x XLR I/O.  I'd prefer the HD 192 because the meters are easy to read, and I prefer XLR sockets, also the A/D converters are better, but the 24 I/O has double the amount of I/O and is cheaper.  The 2408 has plenty of digital inputs, and in the meantime I'll be using a 8 channel mic pre via ADAT, but in the future I'll want to add a few better pre-amps and they generally have XLR outs, so I'd rather have XLR I/O, rather than TRS.  I know you can just go XLR to a TRS jack, but XLR TO XLR just seems better.  Am I just being a bit OCD? haha

I figure I'm going to have 3 stereo sends for headphone mixes, and one 1 stereo send for a set of speakers in the live room.  And then 16 returns (8 mics, 2 channel DI, and the 3 stereo returns for keyboards etc).  So, I guess 12 Ins would be more than enough along with the 8 channel pre-amp via ADAT.

How much I/O have you got in your Live-Room?

Thanks,

Gaz

[stainless]

I'm now up to 28 I/O

the inputs are a luxury so I have all my pre's patched in so I don't have to spend time  patching things in during a session. It also allows me to have my own bands set-up  in place and use other pres/mics, etc with others without having to unplug/reset our set-up.  My live room has 12 4x XLR  placed around it so I never have to have long cables running across the floor.  I have a Presonus D8 (ADAT with 8 pres input only) a Aphex 141 DA converter, and a Lucid 8824 (8 AD/DA). The RME has 4 internal pres. All else is external

For outputs, I have 14 stereo headphone jacks  scattered around the room. I use SPDIF for my control room monitors.

I have used 6 headphone mixes at once several times, and my own band uses 5.  I only have a Presonus  HP60, so 6 is all the headphones I can run n(well 7 if I used the headphone jack on the RME) so that occupies 12 outputs (6 stereo pairs) I group instruments into individual sends (drums, bass, guitar 1,2 keys, vocs, etc) and this takes another 7 - 8 outputs. The remaining i use for sends to outboard gear (compressor, EQ, exciter,  etc)

and yes I have a lot of patch bays (13 spaces worth).....  because I hate crawling around underneath/behind things with a flashlight to try and plug in/unplug things

and yes it's still a work in process... but I am approaching the point where I have to ask, when is enough ..... enough?

so really plan "ahead" unless you enjoy routinely reconfiguring everything

[gaz7224]

and yes I have a lot of patch bays (13 spaces worth).....  because I hate crawling around underneath/behind things with a flashlight to try and plug in/unplug things

That was gonna be my next question.  Do patch-bays degrade audio quality and how much should go through a patchbay?

I've never had a patch bay, and it has been a pain in the ass.  Ideally I'd like everything patched via a patchbay using 'half normal' mode, so I can wire things up for my 'typical' set-up, and then if I want to change something temporarily, I can just patch it in the front.

Can you get XLR patchbays that work in half normal mode?

[stainless]

I run everything through the patchbays.  I can't say absolutely that signals are as good, less good, the same with or without  a patchbay.  My XLR patchbays I have wired myself

as to a normalized XLR patchbay- I've never seen one, nor have I seen a switching XLR, so I'm thinking NO... but there may well be such a beast... but I'll guess (if it exists) it'll be pricey...

 I think the Switchcraft  14B dual switching jack might to the trick... but they ain't cheap and you'd have to build yourself

I think I have 128 XLR's and 192 TRS (a small fortune in cables to be sure... something i try not to think about)

[gaz7224]

Is it better to have  the live-room electric on the same electrical circuit as the control room?  so they share the same earth by being on the same  breaker on the electric board?

I suck at electric terminology, but I hope you know what I mean.

Thanks.

[stainless]

well... earth ground is earth ground, and the neutral/common is the same.... it's the hot side (at least here in the states) that vary and are typically not in phase and may not be exactly the same amplitude... though I've heard this argued...

my studio is on 4 different breakers, but all on the same leg of power ( I have a 200 amp service panel)

[gaz7224]

Thanks.  Guy came the other day to see about putting some more electrical sockets on the wall in control room, and I wasn't sure if to have him put them on the same ring as live-room.

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I've been thinking about the audio wires from live-room to control room.  I presumed I'd just get each lead made up individually, but I now realise the loom will be huge if I do it like that.  I'm presuming I need to find some multi-core cable, like this: http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/P/108123/Stage+Line+Bulk+Multicore+Cable

I'm guessing I can use this for all the wall plates in the live room?  I ask because this would mean removing some of the outer casing so the cores could be distributed throughout the room, and the cores look quite delicate.  They'd be ran behind the skirting board, which would protect them anyway.

Gaz

[stainless]

this is basically what 'snakes" are made from

I had a 100' snake with Mogami cable, and then I got a deal on a 100' snake with 4 speaker runs, so the Mogami became un-needed for the band sound system so I stripped it apart and used the individual 'cables" for my studio.... un twisting all of them was a bit of a challenge, but I got lots of cable, plus a bunch of Switchcraft male and female XLR

I've since bought another used Mogami snake (much shorter) for making my patch bays and patch cables and taken it apart

In both cases I p[aid less for the snakes (bought used) than an equivalent amount of of new Mogami!