AKG Perception 200 Condenser Mic (Giving Hollow feedback)

[CastleRecordz]

I've had this mic for maybe two years.  It's crystal clear... gives very good High level and low ends... sometimes too good with the highs, though.  This is why I always experience so much clipping with it... my natural voice has a natural high frequency level (If said correctly).

Anyway... I used to record in a hollow basement with this mic at one time and had no real problems.  I moved and built a little studio where I currently live (Thinking this should be better because now I'm in an acoustic environment and things will sound more compressed) and now it seems to give me a hollow feedback to my vocals. 

I put the mic level down so I won't have to stand back too far to limit hollowness... then I experience clipping from being too damn close ( ).  It's like I'm s*** out of luck either way with this setup.

What do you all suggest I do?  At what level should I be recording my vocals to get a nice volume sound without clipping or standing too far back which creates the hollowness?

Ask any questions you like--thanks!   

[stainless]

describe your acoustic environment- small booth? window? solid door? and where are these in relation to you and the mic? (how far away?  How do you have the pad and are you using the LF roll off (spec say's it's 12 dB @ 300 Hz)

[CastleRecordz]

describe your acoustic environment- small booth? window? solid door? and where are these in relation to you and the mic? (how far away?  How do you have the pad and are you using the LF roll off (spec say's it's 12 dB @ 300 Hz)

Well I'm recording out of a closet booth.  As far as size, I'm not good at measurement, so guessing... maybe 42 x 29" (Very small).  I have cheap foam from Family Dollar only because if it gets any thicker I won't be able to fit in the closet (LOL)!  I know, it's unfortunate. 

Since the booth is so small, I have to leave the doors open.  So I place the mic kiddy-cornered and stand maybe a foot or half a foot back from it.  I have the closet covered in padding from the ceiling, except the ground, which is carpeted anyway.  I stand 5'9" so the roof is like maybe 4" from my head.

As far as LF roll off, not familiar with that term.  Please specify.

[/size][/color][/font]

[stainless]

to test my theory, set the mike up kitty corner in the room outside the closet and record something you've already done in the closet.  How much difference can you hear?  it's very possible the foam from the dollar store may be doing very little aside from giving a somewhat muffled sound (which is not the purpose of acoustic treatment)

On your mic there are 2 switched, on is labeled  0    -10 dB and , the other has a line on each side, the one on the left is a slope up with a line extending to the right off the top of the sloping line.

If switched to the left side (with the sloped line) it acts as a LF cut... what used to be called a 'rumble filter'- If you have it switched toward that, switch it the other way.

If you have the other switch at 0, try switching it to -10dB, this pads the signal and may help with your clipping issues

[RawDepth]

... At what level should I be recording my vocals to get a nice volume sound without clipping or standing too far back which creates the hollowness?

You should record so that the meter in your recording software (on the recorded track) spends most of its time bouncing around -10 to -18 dB or there about. If a volume adjustment is needed it should be made at your mic preamp, where the mic cable plugs in. All other volume levels should be left at full up or 0 dB.

Since many mics can have a very weak signal strength to begin with, think of your preamp as a tool to boost the volume to a usable level for the rest of the system. Only turn up the volume as much as is needed and no more.

I generally keep the mic about 4 or 5 inches away from the singer's mouth. If your breath hits the mic and causes pops and boom noises then place a pop shield/filter in front of the mic. These are fairly cheap to buy. An alternative is to move the mic slightly higher than your mouth so that your breath does not hit it directly. Hang the mic up-side-down if you want. It's all about trial and error.

[CastleRecordz]

to test my theory, set the mike up kitty corner in the room outside the closet and record something you've already done in the closet.  How much difference can you hear?  it's very possible the foam from the dollar store may be doing very little aside from giving a somewhat muffled sound (which is not the purpose of acoustic treatment)

On your mic there are 2 switched, on is labeled  0    -10 dB and , the other has a line on each side, the one on the left is a slope up with a line extending to the right off the top of the sloping line.

If switched to the left side (with the sloped line) it acts as a LF cut... what used to be called a 'rumble filter'- If you have it switched toward that, switch it the other way.

If you have the other switch at 0, try switching it to -10dB, this pads the signal and may help with your clipping issues

So... when recording outside of the booth, it pretty much sounds like I am.  I hear a hollowness, but a more natural one then I would hear from recording too loud in the booth.  In the booth, I notice I get the hollow sound when the volume of the mic on the interface is up, when I feel as though I need it up to top the music in order to prevent being drowned under.  The hollowness in the booth is more of a feedback from the mic as opposed the the hollow sound outside the booth. Outside the booth it sounds like I'm singing in an open room.

So what I just did was sing a melody with both of the doors open to the closet and it sounds almost fine, but the volume is still low on the interface as I'm afraid to turn it up and then get clipping and hollowness.  Do you just think I need a bigger booth?

[CastleRecordz]

You should record so that the meter in your recording software (on the recorded track) spends most of its time bouncing around -10 to -18 dB or there about. If a volume adjustment is needed it should be made at your mic preamp, where the mic cable plugs in. All other volume levels should be left at full up or 0 dB.

Since many mics can have a very weak signal strength to begin with, think of your preamp as a tool to boost the volume to a usable level for the rest of the system. Only turn up the volume as much as is needed and no more.

I generally keep the mic about 4 or 5 inches away from the singer's mouth. If your breath hits the mic and causes pops and boom noises then place a pop shield/filter in front of the mic. These are fairly cheap to buy. An alternative is to move the mic slightly higher than your mouth so that your breath does not hit it directly. Hang the mic up-side-down if you want. It's all about trial and error.

I have a pop filter.  I tried the standing 4-5inches back method, but that's when I have to turn my mic up on the interface and experience all the hollowness.  ( ).  Plus 4-5" outside of my booth, I'm pretty much out of it.... it's so damn small (LOL).  But yeah, that's when I get my hollow sound, when I'm back too far.  But then when too close, it either pops, or I'm drowned behind the music. 
My question is this:  How clear should you be able to hear yourself when you're singing to a melody in the headphones? 

[stainless]

  In the booth, I notice I get the hollow sound when the volume of the mic on the interface is up, when I feel as though I need it up to top the music in order to prevent being drowned under.  The hollowness in the booth is more of a feedback from the mic as opposed the the hollow sound outside the booth. Outside the booth it sounds like I'

noI think you need to turn down the rest of the mix (music)

try this- IF your satisfied with the music, bounce ONLY the music tracks to a .wav file (you still haven't told us what you're recording on (Cubase? Protools? Sonar? Reaper???)

anyway, then open a new session and import that bounced mix of music into  the new session. Set the level of that so you're vocal is "over the top of it" and record your vocals to it.

now... do you need a bigger booth... hmmm/sign

you're area si rather small and if you're having to use it now with the door open you're pretty much defeating the purpose of having an "isolation" booth.  Try different spots in the room itself to see if you can find a "sweet" spot where your vocals sound good.

The hollowness makes me think your pre (or the space)  has a deficiency in the mids... but you've not said what you're using.


post a copy of a "hollow" vocal track... I want to look at the wave for and sweep the freqs.... and only the vocal track... the music  do not need

I only need 30 - 60 seconds... If you can upload a .wav  or .aif file, that would be preferred over an MP3

[stainless]

"My question is this:  How clear should you be able to hear yourself when you're singing to a melody in the headphones? "

the vocalist should always be  the loudest in his/her mix*

caveat*  people who sing flat can sometimes be helped by lowering the volume of their vocals in their headphones (which causes them to push more air out).  conversely, those who sing 'sharp" may benefit from raise the vocals in their mix so they don't sing so 'strong'

[CastleRecordz]

noI think you need to turn down the rest of the mix (music)

try this- IF your satisfied with the music, bounce ONLY the music tracks to a .wav file (you still haven't told us what you're recording on (Cubase? Protools? Sonar? Reaper???)

anyway, then open a new session and import that bounced mix of music into  the new session. Set the level of that so you're vocal is "over the top of it" and record your vocals to it.

now... do you need a bigger booth... hmmm/sign

you're area si rather small and if you're having to use it now with the door open you're pretty much defeating the purpose of having an "isolation" booth.  Try different spots in the room itself to see if you can find a "sweet" spot where your vocals sound good.

The hollowness makes me think your pre (or the space)  has a deficiency in the mids... but you've not said what you're using.

Hola, como estas!

I record in complete wav files.  So usually, until the song is completed, it's all wav.  The only times it's Mp3 is when I'm using someone else's beats.

Oh, and I record in Adobe Audition But I can't understand their compression diagram so it annoys me.  I then take a track all the way to Cakewalk Music Creator 5 to compress it (Not too fond of theirs either).  I like Cubase Compression tool, but unfortunately Cubase doesn't run well on machine so I had to uninstall until I can get more space on my computer.

So generally, I use Adobe Audition; Cakewalk; Studio One... and every now and then FL Studio.  I have Pro tools, but not 9, so since I got my new interface (Audiobox Presonus) it isn't compatible. 

I'm a music software junkie.    I keep telling myself, "This one is good for this, that one is good for that", but all the while, it's all about the driver behind the wheel.

Ok, I'll try relocating the mic.  And you are right, if the door is open--to hell with the whole booth idea (Shaking my head).

post a copy of a "hollow" vocal track... I want to look at the wave for and sweep the freqs.... and only the vocal track... the music  do not need

I only need 30 - 60 seconds... If you can upload a .wav  or .aif file, that would be preferred over an MP3

[stainless]

Does your edition of Audition have the 'tube modeled compressor" effect?

[CastleRecordz]

Does your edition of Audition have the 'tube modeled compressor" effect?

You know what, I'll check that out.  I do remember seeing something like that before... just not sure where, I use several softwares.  Oh, and as far as your request... see attachments below.  Just recorded that right now. 

One is with doors opened and the mic kitty-cornered.  And the other is with one of the doors closed.  I can't closed... I won't be able to breath that way LOL!

[CastleRecordz]

Here's the other attachment with the doors opened.

[stainless]

I won't be able to look/listen to the sound-clips till this evening.

If you do have that compressor plug in Audition(if not let me know which one you do have... I'll track down the info on it), providing you can insert it on your vocal track I can suggest a good starting point for settings that should allow you to apply compression in Audition without moving to Cakewalk (unless you're using CW for other things... but the tube modeled compressor is pretty straightforward

[CastleRecordz]

I won't be able to look/listen to the sound-clips till this evening.

If you do have that compressor plug in Audition(if not let me know which one you do have... I'll track down the info on it), providing you can insert it on your vocal track I can suggest a good starting point for settings that should allow you to apply compression in Audition without moving to Cakewalk (unless you're using CW for other things... but the tube modeled compressor is pretty straightforward

Thanks a lot!  I will check that out first chance I get.  Talk to you later.

[stainless]

OK, open door/closed door not much difference (open is a bit better), but there's a resonance which I "think" is the problem with the 'hollowness

check all walls  (including other side of the wall in the adjacent room) a picture on the wall...

BTW, nice voice!

it could be a light fixture... don't know but something is adding and it's ~ 860 Hz
Early on my mixes got constantly trashed, especially vocals and one guy made a cut at 912 Hz... sounded better

In my studio there is a loft/attic above with one of those pull down ladders with springs so it stays up when not in use.... turned out the spring in it's hinge assembly were the culprits. I wrapped them with insulation foam (like you wrap pipes outside to keep from freeszing) ... suddenly my vocals nor my drums were getting trashed

I probably spent a couple of thousand $ buying gear and software I thought would "solve" my problem

something in your room is causing this.  The door open/closed... booth  ain't doing poop (or very little)

 look for anything/everything that can ,move )however so slightly)  on the hollow drywall studded walls

betcha a dollar

or you can call me a dumb ass if I'm wrong

[stainless]

I played with the tracks, imported one after the other

[CastleRecordz]

OK, open door/closed door not much difference (open is a bit better), but there's a resonance which I "think" is the problem with the 'hollowness

check all walls  (including other side of the wall in the adjacent room) a picture on the wall...

BTW, nice voice!

it could be a light fixture... don't know but something is adding and it's ~ 860 Hz
Early on my mixes got constantly trashed, especially vocals and one guy made a cut at 912 Hz... sounded better

In my studio there is a loft/attic above with one of those pull down ladders with springs so it stays up when not in use.... turned out the spring in it's hinge assembly were the culprits. I wrapped them with insulation foam (like you wrap pipes outside to keep from freeszing) ... suddenly my vocals nor my drums were getting trashed

I probably spent a couple of thousand $ buying gear and software I thought would "solve" my problem

something in your room is causing this.  The door open/closed... booth  ain't doing poop (or very little)

 look for anything/everything that can ,move )however so slightly)  on the hollow drywall studded walls

betcha a dollar

or you can call me a dumb ass if I'm wrong

Hahaha!  Oh, and thanks for the compliment.  Well, this definitely will be a project that will be quite interesting (finding the solution to this resonance picked up).  But music is always project.  It's gotta be something inside the booth if I'm experiencing it even with the doors closed--correct?  However, I don't think I've ever had both doors closed and stood inside.  For one, it's too small, and two-- because of the padding, it makes the doors heavier and they don't stay closed 9I would have no way to close them from the inside unless when I'm recording with someone--but then that way, I'd sweat to death lol). 

Could it be the mic stand itself?  I'll have to check that out and keep you posted.

 

[CastleRecordz]

I played with the tracks, imported one after the other

I like... a little muffled though, huh?

[stainless]

look for anything that's loose, anything that if you tap/thump it has some lasting resonating sound *.  is ther alight fixture? is it nice and snug to the wall./ceiling?  Door hardware

now everything has some sort of resonance (even rocks)

are the doors hollow core doors?  (hollow core/hollow sound... could be a long shot)

[CastleRecordz]

look for anything that's loose, anything that if you tap/thump it has some lasting resonating sound *.  is ther alight fixture? is it nice and snug to the wall./ceiling?  Door hardware

now everything has some sort of resonance (even rocks)

are the doors hollow core doors?  (hollow core/hollow sound... could be a long shot)

See attachment.  This may amuse you.

[kip4]

are you using a shock mount for the microphone?
some early reflections may be comonig off the lyric sheet or the doors themselves, could be hinge rattle. i dont know.

[stainless]

hmmm

I gotta feeling your booth is doing much but reflecting back at you.  The foam is (I'll wager) doing very little

I'd just nix the booth altogether.

and a shock mount would be a good addition

[CastleRecordz]

are you using a shock mount for the microphone?
some early reflections may be comonig off the lyric sheet or the doors themselves, could be hinge rattle. i dont know.

I do use a shock mount, but yeah, let me try moving the lyric sheet and see if that helps.  I'm getting ready to start a new song at this time anyhow.

[stainless]

let us know what you come up with!