Odds and Ends > Piss and Moan in Here

From the latested HC- ....

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stainless:
http://link-em-us.unicaondemand.com/frontend/dynamicAssets?e=tBD981624FAFE7291569235EA7BEBE92EAF82A4EC0539BBEDA7663FE2981D8D24EF11D731DEE6E76E0FB59E5119CD1B1AA02FE7D760F3212E480430DAEB6727EDB7787D5CEF104D19DA7B94B9B10401C263B41AC7DD9D046B

This just appeared.... normally i wouldn't comment much on their commentary... but this just seems like generally bad advice. Perhaps for a rehearsed band it's fine to record without a click/metronome, but i've had too many instances where someone has played without "because that's just my style" and their timing is so variable that the amount of time it takes for other players to come in and lay down a track takes forever... and is usually comped together because of having to memorize where "Mr/Mrs./Ms that's my style" sped up up, slowed down and how long after a full measure stop they actually waited to start into the next verse/chorus... etc. 

In more than a few instances it's become apparent rather quickly that either continuing on with the "that's my style" approach is going to result in a very 'loose/sloppy' tune... or else it's quickly becoming a complete trainwreck with a group of really flustered players

regardless of the guys creds, to me this article was just plain  irresponsible journalism.  Maybe I'm a purist, but this seems likely to give cause for a lot of "musicians" to simply blame others , the engineer, or the producer for their shortcomings

I'll stop now

RawDepth:
I tend to agree with both you and the writer. But it really depends on the situation.

In the case of that band, it worked because they were already well rehearsed as a unit. They all expected the tempo to vary because it always has in the past. They already knew where it would speed up and where it would slow down. They actually wanted it to do so.

In the case of session musicians or isolated tracking, they have no way of expecting subtle tempo changes if they have not rehearsed it that way. Songs can indeed become a sloppy mess if the rhythm instruments get out of sync even a little bit.

Full measure breaks and rests can be worked around by having someone count aloud through the break. The verbal counting can then be deleted during mixdown. (But then, isn't that the same as using a click track?)

Perhaps the writer should have clarified when to attempt it and when not to.

(Good catch, Stainless.)

stainless:
I've found for our band, even rehearsed, we get tighter recordings when using a click- and yes we do "ignore it at some places" or if the beat gets slightly off a bit (if everything else follows along nicely)... If something else needs to be re-tracked... especially the drums, it's a real PITA, to get a cohesive re-take (and I hate punching in/out drums unless it's between stops)

so, the recent mix I recorded, had that been an acceptable take (which it's clearly not), we'd simply re-track the vocals to eliminate the drum bleed issues, however, there is a plan to drop in written out midi tracks... which without a click is damned time consuming to sync/line up. With the increased reliance on virtual instruments, I suppose it's a non issue if you use a virtual drummer, but if you don't and he's not to a click....hours of editing enjoyment

I believe he should have made the distinction between live recordings and recordings involving the laying in of tracks after the initial 'foundation". In the situation Chappell mentions, it's unclear whether the retake was with the singer, or whether there was still some adaptation the band may have had from the previous Broadway performance that the singer had to adapt to. I'm guessing the manner in which the band became accustomed to playing was driven largely by following the singer over 18 months... and even 18 months is no guarantee each performance would be identical...

there a reason symphony's have conductors, despite everyone having sheet music... he's the metronome as well as the dynamics 'coach'

RazorLand Studio:
I have actually had drummers remark to me that the click was off time !!!!!!!!  ummmmmmmmm ok LOL

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