Using a patch bay

[Isaac]

I just purchased a Manley Vari-Mu, and I'm trying to set it up so that I can record with it, and master through it using a Hosa PDR-369 patch-bay using Apogee Ensemble, and Logic . I bought all the cables for this, but I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to do this. I have been using plug-ins for so long, but now I'm trying to get more into hardware.     

[stainless]

I can't tell by the one blurb I found on Sweetwater if you can just reverse 6 of the front/back female/male connectors as you're probably going to need both on a patch bay to an accessable input and output.

The Manley being a dual channel will occupy 2 females on the front (for your inputs) and 2 males on the front (for outputs) and cable to connect to the Manley

Now the Apogee has 4 inputs, XLR on all 4 and it looks like a Hi-Z TS on 3 & 4 and a TS send/return on 1 & 2.

as the compressor typically follows the pre-amp  you've mainly got Channels 1 & 2 on the Apogee available to use the send/return (1/4" TS)  to send to the Manley (which means you'll need to convert from 1/4" to XLR to get into the Manley and then a XLR x 1/4"

and for 3 & 4 you'll need to assign the output to one of the non-main.monitor outputs , send that to the Manley and then back into one of the Analog inputs to get back to the Apogee's (which will need to be assigned as an input to another track (which may give you some latency (but I think Logic handles delay compensation pretty well)

so looking at the input/outputs of the 2 pieces of gear you've mentioned, if you want to fully utilize a patch-bay, you'll need at least 2 male XLR's on the front of your patch bay for the Manley, AND a 1/4" patch bay for the Hi-Z, send/returns, and analog inputs/outputs on the Apogee

hope this makes sense-

The idea behind patchbays is
1)- to keep you from having to crawl around behind/under things to make changes to signal routing,

and 2) with more gear, to have the patch bay's normalized  for your routine operation. or patched thus-  The normalized approach is a bit more involved, but basically with nothing plugged into the front of your patch bays, the signal flows how you most often use it

Your Hosa patch bay is not normalized, but more a pass thru to bring the back of the gear up front ... and I can't say I've ever seen a "normalized" XLR patchbay

[Isaac]

Hey I wanna say thank you so much for giving me such a great response, I'm gonna try this, and let you know...thx again 

[stainless]

ideally, you may want to look for a stand-alone pre-amp

mic -> pre-amp -> Manley -> analog input

while the Apogee is a high end unit... unfortunately most internals pre-amps do not compare outboard gear

and I cannot believe that none of the manufacturers can build in a true bypass to get around their pre's...  ego I guess

[Isaac]

Sorry I didn't mention that I do have an Avalon pre-amp, but I don't wanna use it for mastering just recording. I wanna use the Manley, and run all the audio that has not gone through the Manley, through the Manley, and back into Logic.   

[stainless]

ah (and nice!)

so you just need to get from the Apogee output (1/4" to the XLR input of the Ashley- and then out of the Ashley to whatever you're mastering to (a  real time CD, or tape, - or to another pair of stereo inputs to a final "mastered" track  and then there's no concern about any latency

[Isaac]

wow I completely lost you there....I just wanna be able to have my audio that was recorded internally go through the Manley, and also have the final mix go through the Manley as well...This is very confusing to me.... I think I'm gonna have to pay someone to come over, and just show me, cause they maybe some setting I have to set on Maestro (Apogee Software)

[stainless]

Let me try to make more sense- once you've done it, it'll make perfect sense

Whether you're running individual tracks thru the Manley, or a stereo master out-

the signal chain is very similar

for individual tracks-  assign an additional analog output (besides whatever you're using for your monitors/headphones)- if a stereo track, assign two analog outputs

connect the assigned outputs to the Manley input(s)- then send the outputs(s) back to a new track, set to receive the analog input you've plugged the XLR x 1/4" cables (or patch bay routing) to

for mastering-

send(patch) the outputs into the Manley inputs- the outputs from the Manley are then sent to whatever you're using as your mastering media (whether it be into another digital stereo track, directly to a real time CD burner (like a Tascam A-700) or to a 1/2 track mastering deck (tape)

you can do this!!!!

[Isaac]

What I don't understand is why can't I just master it in Logic, and make an MP3. Not sure where a real time CD burner comes in, or a Tascam...I'll exp with this, but I"m gonna have to take  a day off work for real...   

[stainless]

you can use it in the "box"

I'm not sure if Logic allows you to have 'sends' on the Master... if so, assign a send to another pair of Apogee analog ouputs (which you'll connect to the input of the Manley)- otherwise change the outputs on the master to a pair of analog outputs no used for the monitors

take output(s) of the Manley and bring into a pair of the analog inputs on the Apogee (so you're not running it back thru a pre-amp)

set up a new stereo track in your session with inputs set the same as the about returns from the Manley.

set your levels and controls to taste on the Manley and you'll have a mastered track to bounce to MP3

[Isaac]

Ok, I think I'm starting to understand, but  the tape deck thing really threw me, but I may get into that after I get this, but thank you so much my friend...are you in NY?

[stainless]

You're welcome

I'm in Kalifornia... the left coast

[Isaac]

oh, ok..what kind of music do you do, and what kind of gear/DAW are you working with?

 

[stainless]

..what kind of music... really varies- I'm influenced by 'most' styles/genres". I am a guitarist probably first then a singer/songwriter next.  And I prefer working with living breathing people, though i've been known to record/play all the parts and I've written out what might almost be called scores.

my songs range all the way from folky, to bluesy, light jazz, fusion, alt rock, alt country, 'classic', rockabilly, bluegrass, funk, ballads, reggae, to zydeco... basically whatever piques my interest at the moment (and songs often start out in one genre and end up something else altogether

I mainly work in Protools, but I interned in the 70's and later as an assistant engineer on tape, tape and more tape (I'm an old dude...) and I still own a reel-to-reel which I use most for vocals because of the saturation and the added headroom. I just recently sold a Control 24 and now have a Euphonix MC Control and MC Mix.. My studio is set up with 48 XLR points and everything comes into patchbays in the Control room,  so I can re-route as needed, but for the most part, things are patched for playing "live" with a 4 piece I'm fortunate to play with- 2 of the other chaps are songwriters as well  (bass, drums, keyboards, and guitar)

I have an assortment of outboard gear- Prism, Bellari, Altec, ART, Blue, and Presonus pre's, a Bellari tube compressor and ss optical pathways on an Altec Lansing and a Bellari... EQ, exciters... and then a bunch of plug-ins...  JBL LSR monitors

stuff... sometimes I think I have too much stuff, and it's taken years to reach my current level of incompetence!

[Isaac]

sounds awsome my friend..cool.. 

[stainless]

if you tired of the Manley, let me know... I could find rack space for it