Author Topic: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!  (Read 516 times)

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Offline PreampXLR

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PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« on: April 18, 2010, 01:10:06 PM »
Ok, I want everybodys opinion on what their choice of preamp would be and why. I want as much feedback as possible so i can decide what to get!!!! all these preamp debates are  making me DiZzY!

I want to concentrate on what external/outbord preamps to purchase for recording my drums.

So what do you guys think. There are a few options i've been checking out,but everytime i choose one.. i come across another forum telling me" NO!!" and then "YES!!" so i dont know what to think anymore!! :(..

ok so i want the best possible sound i can get out of my drums. I already have great mics so thats not a problem....i want the best bang for the buck!!! so,if theres a $700 preamp which can sound like a Million bucks.....Tell me!!!!  :-[

These are the only ones i ACTUALLY know of which might qualify..

Presonus Eureka?
Golden Age-73?
FMR RNP?
PreSonus MP20?
ART Digital MPAII?

Or should i just get a 8-channel preamp. like a Mackie Onyx 800R or a Presonus Digimax fs or something???.. as long as the preamps sounds great...i don.t care. but I thank that generally external pre's would sound better..

OPINIONS OPINIONS OPINIONS!!!!!










Offline stainless

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 03:10:02 PM »
my opinions-
The Eureka is nice, however if this is for drum, I'd imagine you'd need a couple

The Golden age... no knowledge

FMR- I've heard the Really nice compressor- It's OK, but I'll take my Bellari tube compressor over it. I've not heard the pre's, nor do i know of anyone who's bought one 

MP20- no knowledge

I have an ART dual channel tube pre- I like it... but I don't use all that much

I previously owned a Digimax and it was used for drums, I didn't find the built in limiters to be of great help... and as long as I've things set with no clips, I prefer to have any effects on drums after the track has been recorded.  I recently replaced the Digimax with a D8 and I'm quite happy with that. The Digimax was  becoming a bit noisy on a couple of channels... though it appears it was the microphones being used (same one both channels)... so now I'm not sure whether to have the pots cleaned and keep it ... or have the pots cleaned and sell it... or let someone have it "as is"

If you're mainly going after drums, my opinion would be an 8 channel- less gear space, and the coloration will be the same across all tracks (I didn't find the Digimax or the D-8 to color things that much... but I suppose it's a bit harder to tell on drums)
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Offline PreampXLR

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 01:21:50 PM »
Thanks man...Yeah i've defenitly thought of that as well, i would've liked outboard pres though,but i will also like more $$$...so then 8-channel preamps it is... and yes its for the drums.. is there anything in particular that stands out from the rest?? I was actually checkin out the Presonus Digimax 96k, but seeing that i live in South-Africa,the stock of that particular model is very rare here seeing that there is low demand for it. I've also been hearing some good things about the API 3124+ hook 2 of those up(they have 4 mic pres each)...Anyone have exp with this one?? Theres so many damn choices!! Any suggestions??

Thanx!!  8)

Offline stainless

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 01:40:17 PM »
I owned (actually still have) the earlier Digimax 44.1/48K (maybe it did 32K also... can't remember), and as mentioned before the built-in limiters I've not missed at all with the Presonus D8 I've just installed in place of the Digimax... and having only a single control/variable for the limiter didn't add any "sex" appeal for me. If you don't think you need the limiters, look at the D8, while not identical it works well and is very quiet


API 3124... looks real nice! how much money did you say you don't have? LOL 
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Offline RawDepth

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 07:06:48 PM »
If I were you I would approach this as logically as possible. Let me discuss preamps in general for a moment and you will see what I mean.

What exactly does a preamp do? It simply raises the level of a microphone signal. This is because many mics put out a signal that is too weak for the rest of the system to process efficiently and effectively. Thus, the proper way to use a preamp is to only raise the input gain as much as is needed to achieve adequate meter strength or recording volume. When you do boost the level of a preamp, the circuitry itself adds distortion and in worst cases, some hiss. This is what is referred to as coloration and some people feel it is a good thing and some feel it is a bad thing. You must decide this based upon what is being recorded. Some manufacturers use this coloration as a selling point.

Now on to your predicament. If your drums are loud like mine, then you won't need to turn up the preamp gain very much if any. Many of the drum tracks I have recorded have been so loud that the preamp was almost peaking/clipping with no gain at all, (preamp volume all the way down.) In fact, I have inserted inline pads to keep the level under control. OK, I have turned up the overheads, but the toms, snare, and kick were usually peaking when close mic'ed.

When you do not turn up the preamp gain it is almost the same as being set to bypass. For the most part the preamp simply passes the signal through unchanged. (...And, I might add, adds little or no coloration.) For this reason I use a cheapo Behringer ADA8000 8 channel pre for my drums and I get good results. They sound alive because I use decent mics and I have treated my room to improve the sound.

My point is that I would not spend big money on something that won't be doing much for you. I would shop for a good preamp for vocals, stringed instruments, and other quiet sources, but not for power drums. I do have more expensive preamps and I cannot tell any difference when recording drum tracks. I believe you only hear the difference between preamps when you need to turn them way up. That is when the good ones shine through and show their true colors.  ;)

Hope this helps.
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Offline stainless

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 07:44:32 PM »
K... I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here....  >:D >:D >:D

and opinionated bastard that I am!

I would guess if you make the waveform of one  of the drum tracks recorded on a Behringer as large as you can and make the resolution in the millisecond, compared to a slightly higher grade pre-amp (under the same recording conditions) ... you'll see a great deal more of what is generally referred to as "floor noise" on the less expensive pre-amps mainly (and this part is only an  opinion) because of lower tolerance components,  less shielding, power supplies with minimal filtering/regulation, etc.. manufacturers have to cut corners to offer lower priced electronic devices.

as all mixes are a "summation" of the individual tracks,, the noise floor on a track or two may not be noticeable (and results may vary depending on genetics and how much you abused your ears), but on a large session with many many tracks (which is becoming ever so common) I believe this becomes an issue which initially gets approached by applying some form of filter (gate/EQ) to take it out... or hours of tedious editing,

bargain gear is what we all start out with (even those who probably know better)- yes it serves a purpose, but most who stay in recording soon outgrow it and upgrade... why? maybe we've bought into the marketing hype... or maybe we really do hear a difference in the music coming out of the established studios that are not using bargain gear compared to our best efforts.

If recording is more than a "hobby" I think it behooves folks to show some resolve and put off the impulse buying urge and save-up for something that they'll likely keep for a longer period before placing on CraigsList or e-Bay so they can get something "better"... hell, you might even buy something that becomes vintage gear someday!

OK, Satan's gonna go have a beer now  :blank:
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Offline RawDepth

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 08:57:17 PM »
Yeah, you are probably right.

Maybe I don't hear any noise in my cheap pre because my ears are shot. I have played a lot of loud music.

Please let me know if you ever hear hiss in my mixes that doesn't belong there.

(Wait! I hear hiss all day long in everybody's mixes.)  :-[
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Offline stainless

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 09:24:52 PM »
that's me saying "boo...hiss"  for your agree so quickly LOL
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Offline PreampXLR

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Re: PREAMPS PREAMPS PREAMPS!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 02:21:47 AM »
Damn, wow...damn, OK!!! lol...thanx alot dudes thats real informative man.. and yeah my mics,kit and room is pretty damn decsent so... i'll then look into some of the presonus ones you metioned, hopefully buy some extra mics with the extra cash i would've spent...Cool ;) thanx alot guys

See ya at the world cup!! ( not that I like soccer..)but just a friendly greeting from Africa 8)